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  1. #1

    Default Realistic foliage

    Hi folks,

    this will be my public blog on my goal for reaching truly realistic foliage. I will probably work outside of my favourite renderer Vray, because I think Vray2Sided is absolutely insufficient and wrong shader when it comes to scattered light in trees. (edit: please don't pick up on this part too much, it's not sole concern of thread, really, at all :- )... )

    I wrote quite long post, but got unlogged during submit, so.. my beautiful wall of text got lost and I don't have nerves to write it back :- ) So, until next post !

    Feel free to join me

    My main inspiration is the amazing work of Allesandro Prodan, who simply vanished after creating this master-piece, which wasn't yet outdone, not even close by anyone.

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    Last edited by JurajTalcik; 08-29-2012 at 07:38 PM.
    bakbek, forfun, Fouinard and 8 others like this.

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  3. #2
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    This same work is my inspiration and part of the reason I'm undertaking the project I am at the moment. I'm at the same stage as you in that I need to start making all the trees/foliage. I think I'll be using GrowFX for the project, rather than onyx. If you need anyone to bounce ideas off, just get in touch because I'm sure I'll find myself in the same situation.

    I'm not entirely sure I agree with what you've said about the 2sidedmtl though, as although these images were done in mental ray, the translucent part of the shader does pretty much exactly what the 2sidedmtl does. No actual real SSS is going on, it's being faked - but I think it does it rather well.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macker View Post
    This same work is my inspiration and part of the reason I'm undertaking the project I am at the moment. I'm at the same stage as you in that I need to start making all the trees/foliage. I think I'll be using GrowFX for the project, rather than onyx. If you need anyone to bounce ideas off, just get in touch because I'm sure I'll find myself in the same situation.

    I'm not entirely sure I agree with what you've said about the 2sidedmtl though, as although these images were done in mental ray, the translucent part of the shader does pretty much exactly what the 2sidedmtl does. No actual real SSS is going on, it's being faked - but I think it does it rather well.
    Hi Macker,

    I use GrowFx at the moment for many reasons. With Onyx, it's really hard to go beyond trees bigger than 10m. The scales start to go awry. The viewport...not even usable, it will start redrawing then restart. I am definitely not happy with it. I also need the metamesh feature because every tree will be sculpted in Zbrush.

    I disagree with Mental Ray shader being similiar to Vray2Sided, I will post some tests later, but they don't behave similarly at all. Vray2sided is simply too simplistic, all it does is showcase light though opposite side. It also can't be adjusted much at all, there is one value and one map, not very flexible. It's good for things like paper and such, but lacks the complexity for realistic leaves.
    The "thin-sided" translucency (which also uses transparency, here is the big difference!) in Mental Ray let's you choose how much light travels through, not just shows on other side.

    This effect can of course be faked in Vray, but setting low transparency and enabling translucency anyway, this is basicly how Evermotion 58 collection of trees is setup. Such material already behaves better than Vray2Sided, not to mention it doesn't lack highlights, which Vray2sided inherently does, the more it's transparent. But such solution provideds quite a lot of artifacts (leaves on end become truly transparent, as in gray, and light can create extremely saturated "bunches" at random places of image.

  5. #4
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    if you're using the Arch & Design shader, it is pretty much the same...

    The translucency is primarily intended to be used in \thin walled" mode (as in the example
    above) to model things like curtains, rice paper, or such e ects. In \thin walled" mode it
    simply allows the shading of the reverse side of the object to \bleed through".
    http://www.mentalimages.com/fileadmi...and_design.pdf

    Unless you're using another shader?
    Check out my blog @ http://macviz.blogspot.co.uk/

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macker View Post
    if you're using the Arch & Design shader, it is pretty much the same...

    http://www.mentalimages.com/fileadmi...and_design.pdf

    Unless you're using another shader?
    No, I am using this one. And I guess Alessandro used it as well, though, nobody can know for sure now.

    Just compare them yourself, you'll see. I am not arguing, use what you like, I love Vray, and I am torn to not be able to use it, but the results so far speak for themself. Check the best renders of Peter Guthrie, Bertrand and Jamies. It's the same look all the time. The light barely penetrates, the range of hues is strongly cut, highlights are none existent. This isn't the case of Prodan's renders.

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    Great thread Juraj! Please post some test results when you have the time, I would love to see some VRay/MentalRay comparisons on this subject.

    I too have been thinking that VRay needs a dedicated nature/vegetation shader with more options and versatility. A VRayNatMat if you will (although that name sounds awful).

    Keep us posted!

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by m-arch View Post
    Great thread Juraj! Please post some test results when you have the time, I would love to see some VRay/MentalRay comparisons on this subject.

    I too have been thinking that VRay needs a dedicated nature/vegetation shader with more options and versatility. A VRayNatMat if you will (although that name sounds awful).

    Keep us posted!

    That would be killer feature :- ) Honestly, more people use Vray for Architectural renders that would use this feature heavily, instead of carpaint and fastsss shaders, which I rarely see anyone putting to use.

    I will post all info and pictures I come up with, don't worry, hence the share nature of thread. I'll also give a tree(s) so people can experiment too. But time :- ) I am busy and chaotic person, so no fast daily updates :- )

  9. #8
    Junior Member ramy's Avatar
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    I used the A&D material to do this exact same thing in this post: r a m y h a n n a . c o m: Translucent leaves

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramy View Post
    I used the A&D material to do this exact same thing in this post: r a m y h a n n a . c o m: Translucent leaves
    Hi Ramy, during my search I came across you as well :- ). Upfront, I don't like your shader at all.

    Here I think is the most successful Mental Ray attempt from user "Royter"

    http://sor.typepad.com/files/sss_transp_values_comp.jpg



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    There is important thing. "Sky-sensitive" leaves. Most models seems to have leaves absolutely random, stuck in each other, interesecting. More on that later


    I love this photo btw. It speaks for itself.

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  11. #10

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    THIS THREAD IS AWESOME. Although my schedule is bonkers I hope to participate in this discussion with vray. +infinity for the vray veg-mtl.

  12. #11
    Junior Member ramy's Avatar
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    Allessandro's work is also something I used to obsess over. It's been a while since really looking at this fascinating phenomenon. I would like to dive into this with you guys as well. Looking forward to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blowback View Post
    THIS THREAD IS AWESOME. Although my schedule is bonkers I hope to participate in this discussion with vray. +infinity for the vray veg-mtl.
    He, I actually thought about the "VRayVegMat" name too, you know, before the VRayNatMat one, but it sounds like a vegan sandwich!

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